18:19:40 From Rebecca Jones to Everyone : Hello all, please do start posting your questions and comments here, we will then be able to start the discussion after Chris' presentation is finished 18:21:03 From Bill Pryde to Everyone : Quite obvious the major traffic and pollution problem is in Chetwynd Road - no surprises there. The solution can only be found b y the entire neighbourhood and Residential Area wanting this to be improved… after all, ‘ 18:21:20 From Bill Pryde to Everyone : We are all in this Together’..! 18:22:00 From Caroline Jacobs to Everyone : high amount of traffic is through traffic. Gordon house/ Chetwynd is also a main route around Hampstead Heath. 18:22:08 From Barbara Storch to Everyone : Unless overall traffic will be significantly reduced (unlikely), reduction of traffic for one road will simply shift the problem to another road - that cannot be the solution? How can this be managed? 18:23:17 From Brad Reynolds to Everyone : Dartmouth Park has one major traffic issue alongside a series of minor issues. The biggest issue should not come as a surprise to anyone… Chetwynd Road and its connecting road’s - Gordon House, Dartmouth Park Hill and Highgate. Unacceptable air and noise pollution levels are clearly the direct consequence. We must act – no excuses. If the major issue is not adequately addressed this whole process cannot even come close to being a success. Data from Uber/Google(waze)/Apple may help with insights into traffic flow into and out of the area? Uber has been keen to help city planning projects in the past. 18:23:49 From Caroline Jacobs to Everyone : traffic significantly reduced in school holidays. lots of cars in chetwynd and Highgate are travelling to and from many Hampstead schools 18:24:26 From M Richardson to Everyone : I’m confused about the ‘Air quality’ slide. at 18:24:41 From Matthew Pearce to Everyone : we all agree that traffic levels are too high at peak times. the challenge is to find a solution that does not impact car using residents and the integrity of the community (no roadblocks) . this has been a controversial debate in this area for 50 years. bottom line you need to cut east west traffic flows at 8-9am 18:25:01 From M Richardson to Everyone : at the bottom it suggests the survey was done in 2016 (London Air) and 18:25:35 From M Richardson to Everyone : a diffusion tube on Chetwynd Road in Feb 2020. how can these compare? 18:26:29 From Harriet Bourne to Everyone : Accessibility is also a major problem in Chetwynd Road that must be addressed as part of this study 18:27:14 From Simon Conroy to Everyone : If we're above the legal N02 level, isn't the only option to reduce movement rather than increase it? 18:27:19 From Tracey to Everyone : Any solution must include those who are elderly and/or disabled as not everyone can cycle or walk easily. 18:28:25 From Natasha Mitchell to Everyone : mount street???? 18:28:26 From Maya de Souza to Everyone : how do people feel we should balance car users interests and interests of health, safety, streets as play or social spaces? 18:28:38 From Maya de Souza to Everyone : what principles should be applied? 18:28:51 From Charlie Jackson to Everyone : Previous Camden proposals would have meant transferring traffic and pollution from one local street to other local streets — that cannot be fair in principle or workable in practice. Previous local traffic measures along these lines have set local streets against each other — in some cases for years. We should try to avoid that. 18:28:52 From Paul Harris to Everyone : Slowing traffic through streets presumably would increase local NO2 levels 18:29:14 From Natasha Mitchell to Everyone : don’t we simply need to stop people driving kids to school? 18:29:32 From celia turner to Everyone : Also builders, electricians etc can't service our homes and bring their equipment on a bike or on foot. 18:29:43 From Rae Fether to Everyone : Since 1973 when I moved to Chetwynd Road traffic has been progressively funnelled down Chetwynd Road to the benefit of other roads eg I remember when Dartmouth Park Road was totally open to through traffic and Burghley road was another where traffic could filter. How is this fair? Over this period traffic has increased overall and cars have got bigger. I do accept that the real solution may lie outside our area and would need liaising with other boroughs in particular Islington. 18:29:44 From John Chamberlain to Everyone : Motor traffic on Chetwynd Road is almost as high at weekends as during the week 18:29:53 From Natasha Mitchell to Everyone : no it is not 18:30:07 From Matthew Pearce to Everyone : lots of talk about changing our streets but not about making people who use “our streets “ use public transport to go to the schools in Hampstead 18:30:16 From Ben Castell to Everyone : Ben from the Neighbourhood Forum here. Christopher talked about 'red lines' and I just want to stress that the Forum wouldn't support anything that just moves traffic from one residential street to another. 18:31:00 From Judith Walker to Everyone : Highgate, DP, Chetwynd roads are main roads not rat runs. Lots of traffic is local. Much is to do with schools. Residents have cars needing parking there is not much space for redesigns. 18:31:46 From Brad Reynolds to Everyone : Beyond air/noise pollution several other safety issues now exist due to the high volume of traffic and from the negative consequences of the historic road safety measures put in place. Past traffic measures appear to have acted as a giant funnel to force more traffic down Chetwynd Road and compounded by the decision to widen the road at the expense of the pavement area. - unsafe for pedestrians using pavements – inadequate space for anyone with mobility needs/children in prams. - unsafe for cyclists - unsafe parking – collisions with parked cars, entry/exit of vehicles for young children or mobility needs - unsafe for road users – speeding and violent confrontations (2-way traffic at volume passing along effectively a single lane road) 18:32:05 From Carl to Everyone : @judith walker Chetwynd Road is not a main road 18:33:00 From Judith Walker to Everyone : Chetwynd is obviously a major cross road otherwise why the traffic. 18:33:48 From Natasha Mitchell to Everyone : I am afraid this all feels a little middle class for my taste. 18:34:17 From Carl to Everyone : This is the classic example of rat-running - ie abuse of residential roads. Chetwynd is officially classified as local access - same as the other nearby roads. 18:34:22 From celia turner to Everyone : Unfortunately we can't move the Heath and Chetwynd lines up as the southern east-west route with Gordon House rd..so tricky 18:35:17 From Maya de Souza to Everyone : interesting.. I’d like to under why do you see safer quieter sociable streets as middle class? 18:36:12 From Bill Pryde to Everyone : Chetwynd Road is in the middle of a Conservation and Residential Area … and the ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM 18:36:50 From Max Biagosch to Everyone : I'm very supportive of putting infrastructure in to encourage cycling and use of public transport 18:36:57 From robert Nesbitt to Everyone : I am not sure how applying these potential schemes to slow or reduce traffic, in say Highgate Road, doesn't just cause more traffic jams. Where is all the traffic supposed to go? 18:38:13 From Brad Reynolds to Everyone : Once the essential traffic and safety issues have been resolved for Chetwynd and its connecting streets then other areas I feel could be beneficial are; - a far greater amount of trees/green space and new pollution absorbing features (mini City Trees!) - encourage environmentally friendly modes of transport and future proof the plans – bikes, electric vehicles, sharing economy and on-demand micro mobility. This could include EV charging points, bike storage, designated car club parking bays, docks for shared ownership of electric bikes/scooters. Limited number of private driveways across the neighborhood leads to a clear need for kerbside connectors. 18:39:31 From Maya de Souza to Everyone : it may be that any changes to local streets need to be combined with other measures eg encouraging use of school buses, public transport, e-bikes etc? 18:40:07 From Kirsten de Keyser to Everyone : For any of these schemes to work, traffic needs to be reduced by 50%. Modest proposal: Increase cost of motoring tenfold with exemptions for disabled drivers. 18:41:00 From Rosemary Budge to Everyone : Re through area ... the geography means that the only East /west routes are via Hampstead lane north of Heath . 18:41:38 From Jane McWilliams to Everyone : I believe to turn streets into “play streets” would be irresponsible right now. When you think of putting young children onto the streets where 13 year olds are being sentenced for murders they committed when 12, we need to be able to get on top of knife crime before that could ever be considered. Quite frankly i think that is an impossible task. 18:42:08 From Tracey to Everyone : We have a very difficult balance as most streets are quiet in DP. Chetwynd is uniquely busy .I am in favour of time restrictions during school days but Islington has blocked this. I am very opposed to cutting DP in half with road blocks. We need to reduce through traffic but not pollute around schools. danger is make main roads even busier by schools 18:42:15 From Rosemary Budge to Everyone : then to the south via Prince of Wales rd . Itis unfortunate but difficult to change 18:43:12 From Shona Mountford to Everyone : Agree that any initiatives have to incorporate traffic reduction measures. The air quality data is horrific and must be addressed as the priority, 18:43:25 From Judith Walker to Everyone : please do not use the term 'rat running'. Lots of us drive _ just look at the photos. 18:44:08 From John Chamberlain to Everyone : Local roads being used by people who have neither local origin nor destination. Encouraged by Satnav etc 18:47:51 From John Chamberlain to Everyone : Problems on Chetwynd Road affect us all - pollution spills out, we use it to walk to shops and bus stops etc etc 18:48:03 From Tracey to Everyone : sorry can you clarify are you doing this for DPNF or Camden council? 18:49:06 From Jane McWilliams to Everyone : a no entry time zone was put in placate kiln place/gospel oak to control the traffic flow, and this seems to work. could this not work for Chetwynd Rd? 18:49:09 From Ben Castell to Everyone : Tracey - For DPNF, using a CIL grant from Camden. But any interventions would be drawn up and implemented by Camden if they choose to. 18:49:32 From Carl to Everyone : Traffic is often busier in the Summer holidays on Chetwynd Road. The flow is just spread out throughout the day. Data collected shows this. Not just a school run/peak hours issue. 18:49:33 From Simon Conroy to Everyone : Need an area wide approach to reduce through traffic through whole area. Need to make life easier for pedestrians, removing parking on pavements. 18:49:35 From celia turner to Everyone : With covid I think more parents are driving their students to LSU and Ellis, so not just Hampstead schools through traffic 18:50:37 From Shona Mountford to Everyone : Using trees, plants and green spaces as an alternative for dealing with surface water drainage combines several goals - helping with air quality, improving the aesthetic of the streets, making them welcoming open spaces. Challenge is identifying that they can cover the cost that would needed for reasonable level of maintenance... 18:51:06 From Judith Walker to Everyone : sense from the ex Lambeth man! 18:51:24 From John Chamberlain to Everyone : Re school run - though an important factor I think that Camden's traffic counts showed that traffic at weekends is almost as bad, though no doubt spread through the day. 18:51:31 From Shona Mountford to Everyone : disagree entirely that traffic reduction should simply be discarded 18:51:51 From Simon Conroy to Everyone : Unless we tackle Chetwynd traffic, we won't be able to make improvements to any of the roads, as improvements there would push even more traffic on to Chetwynd 18:53:08 From Anne Bird to Everyone : Can’t agree. Things were different some years ago as Dartmouth Park Road took traffic dow into Highgate Road. Not 50 years ago! 18:56:50 From Natasha Mitchell to Everyone : completely agree with Matthew pearce 18:57:53 From Charlie Jackson to Everyone : Very clear summation of problem from Matthew Pearce. 18:58:53 From Matthew Pearce to Everyone : Anne bird is right - it was 40 years ago I think 19:00:03 From John Chamberlain to Everyone : Re Harriet's comment - if you open up other routes traffic will just increase overall. 19:00:50 From David Harrison to Everyone : agreed, John 19:00:54 From Paul Harris to Everyone : Aside from the thorny problem of traffic volumes on Chetwynd Road, Swains Lane towards the junction of Highgate Road has rather morphed from a residential street into rather a café culture 'place'. Recent developments have increased the number of licensed premises to roughly a dozen. This suggests reducing the volume of two way through traffic in favour of pedestrians/cyclists; Improving air quality would be beneficial by-product 19:03:19 From Matthew Pearce to Everyone : one way traffic flows are faster and more dangerous than 2 way 19:03:42 From Simon Conroy to Everyone : Not faster than an enforced 20mph speed limit 19:04:39 From Matthew Pearce to Everyone : ha! 19:05:35 From Natasha Mitchell to Everyone : my understanding is the planners would say wider one way streets lead to faster driving and more accidents. not sure that is the right way to go but agree that we need less traffic and wonder why we can’t simply have timed cameras to reduce entry into area at key points of road.... 19:05:49 From Pat Solomon to Everyone : Agree with Derek, do not agree with idea of sharing traffic 19:06:05 From Joanna van Heyningen to Everyone : On a positive note, hasn’t Swains Lane become a brilliant PLACE? Wide pavements are what I would like to see where ever possible. 19:06:14 From John Chamberlain to Everyone : False assumption that traffic volumes are fixed and will flow through regardless. Many studies have shown this is not true. 19:06:26 From Paul Harris to Everyone : We live mostly in a 20mph zone - no mention of enforcement to focus adherence to a speed limit which the majority do not observe or demonstrate in consideration to other drivers who do 19:06:36 From Kirsten de Keyser to Everyone : On-street parking in London takes up over 14km2, equivalent to 10 Hyde Parks completely covered by cars. Given that the average car is parked 95 per cent of the time, this is a hugely inefficient use of land. We just need fewer cars! 19:07:42 From Matthew Pearce to Everyone : agree Natasha Mitchell - timed control entry covering the commuting times but allowing non residents to access shops must be part of the solution 19:08:50 From Charlie Jackson to Everyone : Agree with Natasha and Matthew… 19:09:39 From Matthew Pearce to Everyone : by the way I understand looking at pollution that the worse in London is on Gordon house road outside gospel oak primary (which wasn’t on the map as just outside the area) 19:09:58 From Matthew Pearce to Everyone : but it’s the same traffic flow east west 19:11:03 From Shona Mountford to Everyone : The speed that some cars go up the steep hill section of Swains Lane (which is one way) is frightening. I would close the section above Highgate Cemetery 19:11:34 From John Chamberlain to Everyone : Agree with Shona 100%! 19:12:17 From celia turner to Everyone : Traffic will just displace to Dartmouth pk Hill and Highgate Rd 19:12:45 From Jeff Salmon to Everyone : The residents in Pond Square in Highgate Village are very worried indeed about the extra traffic that will come up Swains Lane and turning left and immediately right into Pond Square. Pond Square now has a further 1500/200 cars a day (Camden’s figures) coming through our narrow lanes. We are worried that any road blocks put in place in the Dartmouth Park will add even more traffic. 19:13:35 From John Chamberlain to Everyone : Shows the importance of an area solution that includes Swains Lane 19:13:39 From Matthew Pearce to Everyone : re the question for balancing the rights of local car users - you cannot restrict the ability of residents to use their cars. my wife is a key worker who needs to use her car. I know many disabled residents who need to use their cars. 19:15:51 From Sara Whyte to Everyone : sorry this should have been sent to everyone, do I need to write this again. 19:16:03 From Shona Mountford to Everyone : I would say taking back the streets as positive areas for "play" for both adults and children is part of the solution to the youth crime. 19:16:24 From Jane McWilliams to Everyone : I appreciate the information provided re the pollution, but come the end of the year would the ULEZ not take care of that? Surely that should not be the driving force behind the argument for traffic flow change 19:16:39 From Simon Conroy to Everyone : Re @Maya question. Pollution situation is so serious along Chetwynd, and only just legal on other streets, that we must prioritise health first when weighing options 19:17:35 From Shona Mountford to Everyone : Yes @Natasha ! Volume of traffic is the elephant in the Zoom ! 19:17:47 From Simon Conroy to Everyone : Agree with Natasha on this - reducing road capacity will reduce car use 19:18:54 From Roger Skinner to Everyone : we mustn’t exaggerate the pollution issue on Chetwynd Rd. Your figures show the whole area is experiencing similar levels of pollution. 19:19:09 From Sara Whyte to Everyone : the problem with Pond Square is exacerbated by the no right turn into South Grove at the top of Staines Lane which appeared with no notification or reason. I have asked Camden but have had no response. 19:20:23 From David Harrison to Everyone : Agree with Natasha too. Traffic levels are links to road capacity. 19:20:36 From Paul Harris to Everyone : Agree with Sara, no right turn at the top of Swians Lane leaves traffic with nowhere to go 19:23:31 From Philip Burnham to Everyone : I second Sara & Paul’s point about new No Right Turn sign at top of Swains Lane. No consultation on this retrograde step. It is causing a lot of U turning along Pond Square 19:23:39 From robert Nesbitt to Everyone : I agree with Tracy’s point re restricting parking around Hampstead schools -that would have to go some way to reducing rush hour traffic in term time. 19:24:56 From Amanda Rose to Everyone : I think Tracy makes very good sense 19:25:02 From David Lincoln to Everyone : Agree that the area needs less traffic. Other boroughs are trialling point closures, and cycle lanes to reduce through traffic and encourage active travel. Dartmouth Park doesn't need to invent a unique solution. A solution that won't cause any negative impact on any other area is unlikely and in my opinion should not be a red line. While all areas need access, unfettered car access won't lead to traffic reduction. 19:26:52 From Amanda Rose to Everyone : increasing cycle capacity is not a safe answer as cyclist do not so safely and within speed limit, jump lights, weave in and out of traffic and then dash onto pavements and across zebra crossings 19:29:10 From Jeff Salmon to Everyone : Would be grateful for 20 secs. 19:29:37 From Amanda Rose to Everyone : congestion charge on would only move problem elsewhere 19:29:58 From Rosemary Budge to Everyone : Tracy very sensible . During day time our roads are very quiet . Traffic has got worse over last few years as 19:30:42 From Sara Whyte to Everyone : yes it is time safer cycling was an issues. the Swaines Lane/Highgate West Hill route has become a training ground for groups of cyclists and is becoming dangerous for all Road users. hi 19:30:43 From Natasha Mitchell to Everyone : absolutely agree. traffic needs to be reduced not shifted 19:31:03 From Rebecca Jones to Everyone : Hi Jeff we will come to you next 19:31:28 From celia turner to Everyone : Totally agree about Swains cycling 19:31:29 From Paul Harris to Everyone : lets give up our bloated SUVs! 19:31:41 From John Chamberlain to Everyone : Well said, Kirsten. 19:31:55 From David Harrison to Everyone : David Lincoln talks a lot of sense. There are several ways of reducing traffic, one of which is reducing capacity by closing roads 19:37:27 From Shona Mountford to Everyone : Just to say the 214 will take you up the hill ;) 19:37:49 From Kirsten de Keyser to Everyone : Listen to Shona! 19:38:45 From Shona Mountford to Everyone : Well said Simon 19:39:22 From Jeff Salmon to Everyone : Yjr 214 doesn’t take us up Swaines Lane! 19:39:40 From Rosemary Budge to Everyone : not much talk of more electric car points 19:41:30 From John Chamberlain to Everyone : Chetwynd Road was closed for gas main repair in 2019 = nice trial! 19:43:22 From Charlie Jackson to Everyone : Thanks for an interesting discussion around an intractable local problem. It’s worth noting that the local consensus afterCamden’s most recent traffic was to ‘do nothing’. As Tracey mentioned, this was because the proposals were divisive and risk4d 19:44:24 From Charlie Jackson to Everyone : … dividing the local community. The timed right turn at the top of Chetwynd is the only practicable solution that we can all agree on so far 19:45:55 From Bill Pryde to Everyone : The Gas repair closure in Chetwynd Road n 2019 19:46:36 From Rae Fether to Everyone : Maybe back in the 1970’s it seemed liked an obvious cross road but things have changed over the last 40 years as I said in my previous message. 19:47:22 From Tracey to Everyone : Not everyone works locally. I don't and am key worker. I dont want to drive but during Covid my train has been cancelled and need to return promptly for child at home on own so am now driving to Luton. Electric car would love..but lack of charging points makes this impossible . 19:47:30 From Shona Mountford to Everyone : As a right of reply for cyclists - I could tell you some pretty unpleasant stories about car drivers too ! At least cycling isn't choking our children. 19:48:58 From David Harrison to Everyone : Chetwynd Road is not a main road and should not be used as one. Surely, a community should not wants its neighbours to suffer so much. 19:50:46 From Gary Green to Everyone : Also worth noting that Dartmouth Park Road is an ambulance route 19:51:01 From Rae Fether to Everyone : Origin and destination studies are crucial to learn exactly where the traffic is coming from. Otherwise one is swimming around various views. Can Urban conversation recommend this. 19:52:28 From Natasha Mitchell to Everyone : I wd also like to add that it would be great if these kind of discussions could be better promoted in the community so that we get as wide a Dartmouth park representation as we can 19:52:49 From Ben Castell to Everyone : The survey in the summer was online. We publicised as much as we could through residents associations, the DPNF mailing list, school newsletters, social media etc. We were pleased with 400 responses, but understand it was just a snapshot of views. 19:54:25 From Amanda Rose to Everyone : the survey was not picked up by older residents who school newsletters are not relevant surely it should have gone in the Camden New Journal 19:54:40 From Tracey to Everyone : Can we mention the businesses as not sure they were aware of this chat? I know the Vet was very against anything that limited access through DP 19:56:25 From Sara Whyte to Everyone : An easy retort Shona , it does not give cyclists a free pass to ignore to rules of the road. 19:56:30 From Gary Green to Everyone : It would be worth consulting with the Royal Free Hospital and Whittington and the ambulance station. Has this happened? 19:56:36 From Matthew Pearce to Everyone : the point about promotion is that this session was not promoted locally outside a narrow group. there wasn’t communication with the local street groups 19:57:02 From Ben Castell to Everyone : @Tracey - we informed all the businesses on our mailing list. we had Truffles at last Friday's session and Ann spoke passionately on behalf of the York Rise/Chetwynd Road businesses. Some Swains Lane businesses has siged up for today but I don't think came. 19:57:49 From Matthew Pearce to Everyone : I also think that the DPNF view of their survey results ignores a lot do the comments highlighting the concerns of local residents and focusing on the “we all want lower traffic” answers to the multiple choice questions 19:58:16 From Tracey to Everyone : Glad to hear Ben 19:59:16 From Natasha Mitchell to Everyone : thanks everyone! look forward to more discussions 19:59:25 From Maya de Souza to Everyone : that may be an issue for further evidence collection.. source of business for traders? businesses who rely significantly on passing trade may choose to locate on main roads, I expect. 19:59:27 From Paul Harris to Everyone : local businesses are generally supported by local people - but the heath, parks and cemetery are people magnets 19:59:28 From Ben Castell to Everyone : @Matthew - please let us know contact details for any street groups. we contacted all the residents groups we are aware of and asked them to share. 20:00:07 From Shona Mountford to Everyone : Thanks to Christopher and Rebecca for facilitating a really interesting and animated discussion. 20:00:44 From Rebecca Jones to Everyone : thanks to all for your contributions and for coming along today! 20:00:44 From Tracey to Everyone : thanks very good discussion . 20:00:55 From Ben Castell to Everyone : info@dpnf.org.uk 20:01:32 From Paul Harris to Everyone : Good inclusive discussion, thanks Christopher and Rebecca 20:02:03 From Matthew Pearce to Everyone : Maya de Souza - that’s a massive statement. please go and speak to them . the butcher has put 10s of 1000 into fit out to attract more than passing / local trade. they are very fearful they will need to shut 20:02:04 From Kirsten de Keyser to Everyone : Many thanks for a really informative session and I look forward to your next steps 20:02:35 From David Lincoln to Everyone : If approaching local businesses , don't forget the schools especially La Swap which has kids travelling between the schools between lessons. Thanks 20:03:02 From Ben Castell to Everyone : Yes, we contacted all of the schools. @David